Truly there will not be any "DNA" to be found because the whole "airliners used as weapons" story is a total FAIRY TALE. there were NO planes, no airliner ever flown could have performed in a crash as was reported by the media about 4 crashes on 9/11/2001
Jim Fetzer has also suggest that. But visual proof in sunlight has to be seen. Even if it existed why do so when it's easier to slip in repainted militiary jet during the war games.
In order for there to have been a real aircraft penetrating the skyscraper wall, it would have had to be a hardened steel battering ram . . . not likely
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they used planes made of the same materials that are found in hardened steel battering rams. It would account for the unusual physics and what little plane debris was found. But there's no evidence to indicate that's what they used, either, so it had to be something else.
It's these kinds of logical questions that require critical thinking and researching the facts that elude so many who would rather believe in unsubstantiated narratives, because they heard it from a 'trusted' source.
From what I gathered, it appears it would be difficult to retrieve and find matches from DNA samples that have been exposed to super hot temperatures for extensive periods of time, at least with traditional DNA testing. So it's probably yet another lie in a series of lies that is 9/11, especially in light of the fact that the flights reportedly involved were apparently still airborne and flying elsewhere when the attacks took place.
Another thing that I find suspect about the forensic process is that the authorities never bothered to actually identify the hijackers, or if they did, they never revealed who they really identified. With Flights 77 and 93, for instance, they claim to have identified those planes' hijackers via a "process of elimination", which means that since they got no matches from victims' relatives who offered DNA samples for identification, they're assumed to be the purported terrorists. Is it really believable that they didn't do their due diligence in properly identifying those accused of committing one of the most heinous crimes in human history?
And does anyone really believe the perpetrators didn't think about the forensic identification of human remains, too, especially from the planes? I'd imagine their updated version of Northwoods/Bojinka would include not only plane swaps/duplicate flights, but also planted or fabricated evidence, which includes the identification of remains from the crash sites (with the exception of the hijackers for reasons only known to them).
Some may ask why they didn't produce false positives for the hijackers like they did for the victims. To this I say they wanted to hide their true identities and to foster endless wild speculation among the skeptics.
Because it is more evidence of fraud involving the passengers. I don’t believe the passengers died at any of the 4 targets. The DNA like any of the passengers belongs that were found, is also more fraud.
No I know that mate, but I am trying to start a conversation and some interest to at least make a start on demolishing (pardon the pun) this whole shit-show. LOL.
It argues that DNA in bone, teeth, etc., can shield against high heat. Also, I think the brief exposure time should result in a lot more body parts and airplane parts / luggage being present all throughout the crash sites.
No where near enough *recognizable* plane debris, anyway. But in any case, none of them have ever been positively identified as belonging to the flights in question (excluding the passenger remains reportedly found and ID'd), and the flights were still apparently airborne after the crashes, so we cannot safely say any of the planes crashed where they say they did.
Ironically, the FBI claims to have recovered at least 95% of United 93 a few weeks after 9/11, for instance. There should've been plenty of excavated plane debris to be seen if that's the case, but I haven't seen much public evidence of the sort to confirm that claim.
Regarding the identification of American 77 victims, the DOD's account of the process in their book "Pentagon 9/11" (2007) implies that mitochondrial DNA testing was primarily done on the remains, which contradicts other official reports such as "Naming the Dead - Confronting the Realities of Rapid Identification of Degraded Skeletal Remains" (2004) that say nuclear DNA testing was done instead. It also admits that "in many instances" the DNA of the victims were destroyed and thus couldn't yield available samples for testing:
"DNA evidence, regarded by the public and the courts as the "gold standard" for identification, was not, however, always available because in many instances it too had been destroyed. For example, the most precise form, nuclear DNA, whose testing reveals unique characteristics, degrades quickly and is vulnerable to fire. The second type, mitochondrial DNA, more resistant to high temperatures, can require a month or more of laboratory time to process, and since only the mothers mitochondrial DNA carries on to subsequent generations, its use for proof of identity often requires additional genealogical research.” - https://archive.org/details/pentagon-9-11-1/page/182/mode/1up?q=mitochondrial
“Nuclear DNA testing (along with dental records and fingerprints) of the remains from the victims aboard American Airline (AA) Flight 77 and within the Pentagon was useful for identifying 178 of the 183 victims. Five missing individuals (four within the Pentagon and one aboard the airplane) could not be identified due to lack of biological material from the crash. Five remaining nuclear STR profiles were obtained from the crash site that did not match any references for the victims. These profiles were thought to represent the terrorists aboard the flight.” - https://archive.org/details/edson-2004/page/83/mode/1up?q=Nuclear+DNA
The 2007 publication also details how difficult it was to identify and determine the cause of death of the Flight 77 victims and Pentagon workers who died in the plane's path, with one participant being quoted as saying that:
""Given the level of char and fragmentation,’ Captain Wagner thought that the “real challenge” in identification and determining the cause of death had not been the “DoD folks" but the contractors and the airplane passengers and crew for whom it was more diffcult to reconstitute medical and dental records." - https://archive.org/details/pentagon-9-11-1/page/183/mode/1up?q=Captain+Wagner
In the same paragraph about the hijackers, it's mentioned that:
As for the burning temperatures for nuclear and mitochondrial DNA, here are the search results I got at DuckDuckGo:
"Nuclear DNA is generally destroyed at temperatures exceeding about 400°C for a sustained period. At lower temperatures, DNA may denature but can still be recoverable under certain conditions."
"Mitochondrial DNA can be damaged by high temperatures, but specific burning temperatures that lead to its destruction are not well-defined in the available research. Generally, extreme heat can cause significant damage to DNA, including mitochondrial DNA, but the exact temperature threshold is not specified."
Also, if nuclear DNA is highly susceptible to immediate degradation and fire, why would the lab technicians at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware use it to identify the Pentagon victims? Wouldn't it have made more sense to test mitochondrial DNA instead, since according to the U.S. military itself, mitochondrial DNA is "more resistant to high temperatures" than nuclear DNA?
Interestingly enough, the 2004 Edson paper (see: page 83) claims that some of the hijackers were identified via their mitochondrial DNA. But it ultimately doesn't mean anything, really, since who they were identified to be has never been disclosed.
So the only definite 'evidence' we have to tie the 19 named suspects to the 9/11 flights are some versions of the passenger manifests that have their names and possibly planted evidence found at the airports where the planes flew from and the crash sites.
Truly there will not be any "DNA" to be found because the whole "airliners used as weapons" story is a total FAIRY TALE. there were NO planes, no airliner ever flown could have performed in a crash as was reported by the media about 4 crashes on 9/11/2001
WE THE PEOPLE have been lied to!
We do know that there were two planes. The question is what kind of planes were they?
Mark thinks they were 3d volumetric projections (that is, advanced holograms) of some sort.
Jim Fetzer has also suggest that. But visual proof in sunlight has to be seen. Even if it existed why do so when it's easier to slip in repainted militiary jet during the war games.
In order for there to have been a real aircraft penetrating the skyscraper wall, it would have had to be a hardened steel battering ram . . . not likely
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they used planes made of the same materials that are found in hardened steel battering rams. It would account for the unusual physics and what little plane debris was found. But there's no evidence to indicate that's what they used, either, so it had to be something else.
sufficient to show that no airliner could have done what was allegedly done . . . .
Also, DNA is not what we think it is:
https://controlstudies.substack.com/p/dissolving-dna-illusions?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2692591&post_id=165055172&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=xafil&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
Many thanks this, I will have a read.
It's these kinds of logical questions that require critical thinking and researching the facts that elude so many who would rather believe in unsubstantiated narratives, because they heard it from a 'trusted' source.
From what I gathered, it appears it would be difficult to retrieve and find matches from DNA samples that have been exposed to super hot temperatures for extensive periods of time, at least with traditional DNA testing. So it's probably yet another lie in a series of lies that is 9/11, especially in light of the fact that the flights reportedly involved were apparently still airborne and flying elsewhere when the attacks took place.
Another thing that I find suspect about the forensic process is that the authorities never bothered to actually identify the hijackers, or if they did, they never revealed who they really identified. With Flights 77 and 93, for instance, they claim to have identified those planes' hijackers via a "process of elimination", which means that since they got no matches from victims' relatives who offered DNA samples for identification, they're assumed to be the purported terrorists. Is it really believable that they didn't do their due diligence in properly identifying those accused of committing one of the most heinous crimes in human history?
And does anyone really believe the perpetrators didn't think about the forensic identification of human remains, too, especially from the planes? I'd imagine their updated version of Northwoods/Bojinka would include not only plane swaps/duplicate flights, but also planted or fabricated evidence, which includes the identification of remains from the crash sites (with the exception of the hijackers for reasons only known to them).
Some may ask why they didn't produce false positives for the hijackers like they did for the victims. To this I say they wanted to hide their true identities and to foster endless wild speculation among the skeptics.
Why argue about DNA in the first place, when we know the alleged planes on 9/11 DID NOT crash at the alleged locations?
9/11 The Plane / No Plane debate settled.
Most probably the best distraction of WHAT happened on September 11, 2001
Article: https://911revision.substack.com/p/911-the-plane-no-plane-argument
Because it is more evidence of fraud involving the passengers. I don’t believe the passengers died at any of the 4 targets. The DNA like any of the passengers belongs that were found, is also more fraud.
I agree, but my comment was more of a tongue in cheek comment to begin with. ;-)
No I know that mate, but I am trying to start a conversation and some interest to at least make a start on demolishing (pardon the pun) this whole shit-show. LOL.
Demolish? I think you mean dustify?
I knew that would get you going.... LOL. I like Molecular disassociation.
Ok, touché! I like Molecular disassociation too.
Great question. Here is Grok's response: https://x.com/i/grok/share/fmJ68hVqvdkHW5x22KS0p1X8o
It argues that DNA in bone, teeth, etc., can shield against high heat. Also, I think the brief exposure time should result in a lot more body parts and airplane parts / luggage being present all throughout the crash sites.
Hi Mat,
Great points! No where near enough luggage and plane parts.
Thanks for covering the previous question in your live yesterday. I would've popped on, but didn't see it until after it had ended.
No where near enough *recognizable* plane debris, anyway. But in any case, none of them have ever been positively identified as belonging to the flights in question (excluding the passenger remains reportedly found and ID'd), and the flights were still apparently airborne after the crashes, so we cannot safely say any of the planes crashed where they say they did.
Ironically, the FBI claims to have recovered at least 95% of United 93 a few weeks after 9/11, for instance. There should've been plenty of excavated plane debris to be seen if that's the case, but I haven't seen much public evidence of the sort to confirm that claim.
Not to mention the fire that the Flight 93 Memorial museum had in 2014, which probably destroyed plenty of that "95%" debris.
Another point on the brief exposure time, you can actually touch fire when done quickly! https://youtu.be/fRnmkV-_MZ0
Regarding the identification of American 77 victims, the DOD's account of the process in their book "Pentagon 9/11" (2007) implies that mitochondrial DNA testing was primarily done on the remains, which contradicts other official reports such as "Naming the Dead - Confronting the Realities of Rapid Identification of Degraded Skeletal Remains" (2004) that say nuclear DNA testing was done instead. It also admits that "in many instances" the DNA of the victims were destroyed and thus couldn't yield available samples for testing:
"DNA evidence, regarded by the public and the courts as the "gold standard" for identification, was not, however, always available because in many instances it too had been destroyed. For example, the most precise form, nuclear DNA, whose testing reveals unique characteristics, degrades quickly and is vulnerable to fire. The second type, mitochondrial DNA, more resistant to high temperatures, can require a month or more of laboratory time to process, and since only the mothers mitochondrial DNA carries on to subsequent generations, its use for proof of identity often requires additional genealogical research.” - https://archive.org/details/pentagon-9-11-1/page/182/mode/1up?q=mitochondrial
“Nuclear DNA testing (along with dental records and fingerprints) of the remains from the victims aboard American Airline (AA) Flight 77 and within the Pentagon was useful for identifying 178 of the 183 victims. Five missing individuals (four within the Pentagon and one aboard the airplane) could not be identified due to lack of biological material from the crash. Five remaining nuclear STR profiles were obtained from the crash site that did not match any references for the victims. These profiles were thought to represent the terrorists aboard the flight.” - https://archive.org/details/edson-2004/page/83/mode/1up?q=Nuclear+DNA
The 2007 publication also details how difficult it was to identify and determine the cause of death of the Flight 77 victims and Pentagon workers who died in the plane's path, with one participant being quoted as saying that:
""Given the level of char and fragmentation,’ Captain Wagner thought that the “real challenge” in identification and determining the cause of death had not been the “DoD folks" but the contractors and the airplane passengers and crew for whom it was more diffcult to reconstitute medical and dental records." - https://archive.org/details/pentagon-9-11-1/page/183/mode/1up?q=Captain+Wagner
In the same paragraph about the hijackers, it's mentioned that:
"Although analysis indicated the hijackers remains, their individual identities could not be determined since there was no reference dental or DNA information. The FBI took custody of them." - https://archive.org/details/pentagon-9-11-1/page/183/mode/1up?q=Although+analysis+indicated+the+hijackers+remains
As for the burning temperatures for nuclear and mitochondrial DNA, here are the search results I got at DuckDuckGo:
"Nuclear DNA is generally destroyed at temperatures exceeding about 400°C for a sustained period. At lower temperatures, DNA may denature but can still be recoverable under certain conditions."
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=at+what+burning+temperatures+do+nuclear+dna+get+destroyed%3F&t=h_&ia=web
"Mitochondrial DNA can be damaged by high temperatures, but specific burning temperatures that lead to its destruction are not well-defined in the available research. Generally, extreme heat can cause significant damage to DNA, including mitochondrial DNA, but the exact temperature threshold is not specified."
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=at+what+burning+temperatures+do+mitochondrial+dna+get+destroyed%3F&ia=web
Also, if nuclear DNA is highly susceptible to immediate degradation and fire, why would the lab technicians at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware use it to identify the Pentagon victims? Wouldn't it have made more sense to test mitochondrial DNA instead, since according to the U.S. military itself, mitochondrial DNA is "more resistant to high temperatures" than nuclear DNA?
Interestingly enough, the 2004 Edson paper (see: page 83) claims that some of the hijackers were identified via their mitochondrial DNA. But it ultimately doesn't mean anything, really, since who they were identified to be has never been disclosed.
So the only definite 'evidence' we have to tie the 19 named suspects to the 9/11 flights are some versions of the passenger manifests that have their names and possibly planted evidence found at the airports where the planes flew from and the crash sites.
Convenient, eh?